These very long posts are having a bad impact on the CPU on the server. While I am thankful for the discussion, I will now ask you to take any further discussion/debate to the forums :). Comments are now closed

Thanks!

Admin

I am sick and tired of you anti-vaxxers resorting to ad hominem attack. So, unless you can conduct yourself in a semi-civil fashion, do not expect me to respond.

I am not interested in your conspiracy theories any more than you are interested in actual scientific evidence. Which is obviously nil.

Since you have not provided any links or references to this alleged Amish clinic, I have to assume you’re lying or else someone has lied to you and you have swallowed it whole, just like you swallowed the whole “WHO is an evil plot to kill us all” line.

If what you say has any truth to it at all, why aren’t ALL vaccinated children autistic? Could it be that you are wrong? Of course not. An anti-vaxxer getting something wrong? Where will the madness end?!

Dear Young (or not) Skeptics,

Please Google these : Gabby Swank (Gardasil) ; Ian’s Story (Hep B) ; Thinktwice. com. The pictorial evidence on Ian’s site is compelling, to say the very least.

Also, this book, Vaccine Safety Manual , by Neil Miller, has 71 pages of Notes with numerous references to publications by the CDC (Centers for Disease Control), WHO (World Health Organization), VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System), Merck and Co., Inc., JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association, FDA (Food and Drug Administration), ACC (American Cancer Council), NVIC (National Vaccine Information Center), to list but a few.

This book is available for AUD $27. (approx.) through Fishpond.com.au. It is a large tome, but well worth a read if one wants to have some more facts, supported by data, for argument. With the information Young Skeptics has already gathered from the CDC official website, from Merck and Co.‘s company website, from GlaxoSmithKline’s company website, from CSL’s (Commonwealth Serum Laboratories) company website, from the Commonwealth Gov’t of Australia website; from all this information Young Skeptics has researched (and read) it would seem obvious that the need to silence the AVN is not necessary. Since the vaccination schedule here in Australia, and in America, is so effective at wiping out particular diseases, it will not matter if a statistically small number of the population (>10%) chooses to not vaccinate. Those who choose to vaccinate will have no fear of “catching” one of these diseases because they will be protected, as long as they continue to get booster shots (every 5 years) for all of the vaccines on the current schedule as well as any new ones . Don’t forget your HPV vaccine, Gardasil, boys! The guarantee for that one is foolproof, boys; you will NEVER get cervical cancer! Guaranteed! Merck didn’t want to leave the other half of the population(‘s money) out. Can you guess what HPV really stands for?! Human Papilloma Virus, right? WRONG! Guess again. No clue? Thought not. How’s this then: HELP PAY for VIOXX!?! How funny is that?

So, don’t worry about the AVN, boys, it will die a slow death just as all the vaccine-preventable diseases have done in populations where there is <90% vaccinated. Hold that thought while I find that reference. Or maybe you have it already? Should be on the CDC website. Don’t fret about the AVN, boys, it will soon be past tense just like all those who past away while on VIOXX. Hold that thought while I find that reference. Or maybe you have it handy from your research? Should be on the FDA’s website . Don’t loose sleep over the AVN, boys, it will soon become One Less just like Brooke Petkevicius, 19, Jessica Ericzon, 17, Christina Tarsell, 21, Amber Kaufman, 16, Jasmin Soriat, 19, Megan Hild, 20, Natalie Morton, 14, who have all become One Less after they all were vaccinated with Gardasil. Hold that thought while I find that reference. Or maybe you’ve saved me the time and looked up the data on VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System) set up by the US federal gov’t? No? Why not? There are more than 9,000 Gardasil adverse events already on file in VAERS . More than 9,000 girls and young women aged 9–26 who are vaccine injured (and they’re the lucky ones) or DEAD (not lucky). More than 9,000 vaccine-injured females since Merck sold us Gardasil in 2006. That means in less than the time it takes to get a university degree, Merck and our gov’ts have conspired to make each of these 9,000 girls and young women One Less daughter, One Less sister, One Less granddaughter, One Less wife, One Less mum, One Less best friend.

The data is there. Go to Thinktwice.com, follow the link to VAERS. Young Skeptics, you can do it! Before someone you know becomes One Less.

One last tip: you are in for a wild ride. Get a strong, large cup o’ joe, a legal pad, sharpened pencil(s), and a keen curiosity; then sit back and let your neurons fire! Good luck ! God speed!

I’m sorry I mistook you for an anti-vaxxer. It’s just that you came across as one with your initial post. I’ve been fighting the anti-vax lobby for sometime now and it is my experience that they are usually quite terse to say the least.

But, about the speed of light. Yes, there are a lot of pages that deal with faster than light travel. Almost all of them, however, would tell you it’s impossible and for good reason. It is. I think you’ll find that the ones that attest otherwise are firmly in the realm of science-fiction.

But, that’s enough of the digressions. With regard to our campaign, it is in the public interest to protect parents from misinformation. It is in the public interest to protect children from disease. Therefore, it is in the public interest that the AVN and their offshoots, the VAIS and VIS are put out of business.

Then, we can begin to undo some of the damage that has been done by them. I will not entertain a “freedom of speech” argument where one does not exist. I will not entertain any form of false balance. I will not entertain any argument that is not based on firm science and reasoning and is backed up by testable evidence.

Our mission statement is simple: Silence the anti-vaccination lobby in Australia; Remove the incentive payments for so-called “conscientious objectors” and other people who choose not to vaccinate (except where a physician has stated a child should not be vaccinated due to a pre-existing underlying medical condition); Campaign for more education on vaccine safety and efficacy including an ongoing information campaign from governments both State and Federal.

If the anti-vaccination lobby had any valid points, then surely my demand for evidence would have been easy to attend to. However, none has been forthcoming and I am therefore left to conclude that they have no valid arguments. Merely conspiracy theories and scaremongering. neither of which have any place in the realm of science.

Placing tongue firmly in cheek.…
That explains all the new cars!!! :-P

You seem to be implying I’m anti vax…Um reading 101 re my kids.

I have also had the lot and no adhd etc etc. However I don’t like getting them due to an idiot nurse who broke a hypodermic of in my arse and then spent 20 minutes digging the tip out. Funnily enough that left me with a lifelong phobia of needles!!
Usually end up feinting while donating blood…

Thanks for the link to RCGP.

My apolgies for the off topic troll…
Results 1 — 10 of about 36,300,000 for light faster than light. (0.29 seconds)
I am sure old einstein would find some of this more than amusing. Of course the internet is not to be trusted as a source of reliable information but the mind boggles at the potential possibilities should it ever prove feasable!!

I am truly sorry my two nuerons have upset the boards denizens to the extent that I have and I appreciate the time taken with the more reasoned replies. I promise to leave you good folk alone. As he slinks back under rock (gotta go to work) to continue observing a world he can’t possibly understand.

Bye.

Life experience? I’m not 17 you know. I won’t give away my age, as I feel it is completely irrelevant. But, if you want to engage in that old duck, I’ll give you my life experience with vaccines. Had every single one that was available. And yet, funnily enough, I am neither autistic, nor under the control of nano-bots.

As for thiormesal, perhaps you’d like to read about it here: http://www.racgp.org.au/h1n1/34286 Just so there’s no confusion, thats (RCGP Web) Royal College of General Practioners, accessed 5 October 2009. At Swinburne, we use ApJ, not Harvard.

Your reading list is… well, predictable. But, as this is a scientific issue, I think I’ll stick to journals.

Vested interests. Yes, I concede there are vested interests. The government has a vested interest in saving millions of dollars by preventing people from falling ill in the first place. As vaccines are a very good way to do this, they turn to drug companies to produce them. I don’t know why this would surprise anyone, after all — you wouldn’t go to an ice cream shop to have your suit dry-cleaned. The drug companies have a vested interest in ensuring the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. Otherwise (surprise, surprise) the government wouldn’t approve it.

A series of checks and balances does not a conspiracy make.

It is a typical ploy of the anti-vax lobby to go after someone’s education. When that doesn’t work, they say they have no real life experience. What about those of us who have both? What other aspect of my life would you like to attack?

It is also a typical ploy of the ant-vax lobby to argue that the sky is pink with purple poker-dots, even though they are standing under a blue one, because “they read somewhere that it’s pink.” Yet, when pressed, they can offer no evidence. None.

We have asked and asked and asked the ant-vax lobby for evidence. They fail to produce any. When they ask us, we provide them with mountains of it that they chose to ignore.

So, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the anti-vax house is one of cards. They won’t dare to remove one and admit they’re wrong about even the tiniest detail of their story, because the whole lot will collapse. Science, on the other hand, is no house of cards. It opens itself up to scrutiny and is ever self correcting.

The reasons vaccines have not been abandoned by science is because in over 700 years of scrutiny and self correction, they have time and time again proven their value. the same cannot be said for any of the arguments put forth by those that oppose their use.

Don was dismissed because he didn’t say anything relevant to the discussion. He just made broad statements about not trusting the establishment — whether it be the researchers, the medical community or the education system.

And you’re right, this isn’t university — thus university standard referencing is hardly necessary. What universities do or do not require in terms of referencing is once again irrelevant to this discussion. It appears the only reason you raised the issue was to further implicate the degeneration of the education system, as you did when you implicated the PhDs have lost their validity simply because of the introduction of new fields of study that deem unworthy.

And what makes you think the posters here are ignorant of the ‘plethora of vested interests’ you mention? Just because they don’t harbor anti-establishment fears of BigPharma conspiracies and economic influences doesn’t mean they aren’t aware of them. It is clear from your closing reading suggestions that you think this issue has something to do with the alleged over-extension of government and their future intentions of total control. Once more, irrelevant to this discussion.

What is relevant to this discussion is the efficacy and safety vaccination. For anyone who doesn’t have an irrational fear and/or mistrust of government and industrial establishments, these matters have been sufficiently answered ad nauseum. For those that do hold these sentiments, no amount of evidence will disuade them from their beliefs. Your continual mention of the thimerosal canard is a prime example of this phenomenon; you simply refuse to accept that thimerosal has been found to be safe despite mountains of evidence, attributing it to bias or deception on the behalf of the researchers. Have better preservatives been created? Most likely. So what? We still use penicillin after all this time, along with many other tried and tested medicines. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Your only problem is that you refuse to accept that it ain’t broke.