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	<title>Comments on: Insidious Relativism</title>
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	<link>http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/08/insidious-relativism/</link>
	<description>A sanctuary for young free-thinkers</description>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/08/insidious-relativism/comment-page-1/#comment-7617</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.youngausskeptics.com/?p=3815#comment-7617</guid>
		<description>From my experiences of postmodernism I can sympathise with your article. Much of it is written purely to be different from the &#039;quasi-scientific-western-patriarchal-colonialist-etc.&#039; academic standard. One lecturer I have showed us an extract from a female academic, proudly explaining that it had been written the way it was (i.e. poorly) in order to differentiate herself (she is from a Vietnamese background) from typical Western thinking.

First up, I thought it was a bit piss-weak to write it in English - if you want to really be different, write it in Swahili or one of those African clicking languages instead. Secondly, whatever the content was, it failed to reach the audience, who sat there silent and confused as our lecturer pestered us to guess the meaning of the extract.

Perhaps it was MEANT to make no sense, to try and make the audience realise just how impossible it is to truly understand another culture.

In that case, well done, it worked. The only problem is that suddenly nobody in the 200 seat lecture theatre really cared for postmodernism, bar a few of the crazies who presumably will take the lecturer&#039;s place upon his retirement.

It&#039;s such a shame that the core messages of theories such as relativism - treat others equally and with respect - don&#039;t get through. A lot of the problems with colonialism in the past still echo today, yet the average person doesn&#039;t seem to comprehend this and just assumes that fitting in with Western culture will solve everything. In theory, who knows? In practice, it doesn&#039;t.

That&#039;s not to say we must bend over backwards for other cultures, but it does mean making an attempt to listen to them and avoid stereotyping them in Herald Sun editorials.

It&#039;s common sense really, and the core messages of what these academics say have really changed society in positive ways over the decades. It&#039;s just a shame that they feel the need to write in some gibberish creole language.

Here&#039;s a hint - you&#039;re not being radical. You&#039;re being pretentious twats. Write in plain English and perhaps more people will start to take your views seriously...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my experiences of postmodernism I can sympathise with your article. Much of it is written purely to be different from the ‘quasi-scientific-western-patriarchal-colonialist-etc.’ academic standard. One lecturer I have showed us an extract from a female academic, proudly explaining that it had been written the way it was (i.e. poorly) in order to differentiate herself (she is from a Vietnamese background) from typical Western thinking.</p>
<p>First up, I thought it was a bit piss-weak to write it in English — if you want to really be different, write it in Swahili or one of those African clicking languages instead. Secondly, whatever the content was, it failed to reach the audience, who sat there silent and confused as our lecturer pestered us to guess the meaning of the extract.</p>
<p>Perhaps it was MEANT to make no sense, to try and make the audience realise just how impossible it is to truly understand another culture.</p>
<p>In that case, well done, it worked. The only problem is that suddenly nobody in the 200 seat lecture theatre really cared for postmodernism, bar a few of the crazies who presumably will take the lecturer’s place upon his retirement.</p>
<p>It’s such a shame that the core messages of theories such as relativism — treat others equally and with respect — don’t get through. A lot of the problems with colonialism in the past still echo today, yet the average person doesn’t seem to comprehend this and just assumes that fitting in with Western culture will solve everything. In theory, who knows? In practice, it doesn’t.</p>
<p>That’s not to say we must bend over backwards for other cultures, but it does mean making an attempt to listen to them and avoid stereotyping them in Herald Sun editorials.</p>
<p>It’s common sense really, and the core messages of what these academics say have really changed society in positive ways over the decades. It’s just a shame that they feel the need to write in some gibberish creole language.</p>
<p>Here’s a hint — you’re not being radical. You’re being pretentious twats. Write in plain English and perhaps more people will start to take your views seriously…</p>
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		<title>By: F</title>
		<link>http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/08/insidious-relativism/comment-page-1/#comment-7541</link>
		<dc:creator>F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.youngausskeptics.com/?p=3815#comment-7541</guid>
		<description>See  the &quot;Social Text Affair&quot;, if you haven&#039;t already.  ;) 
http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/postmodernism.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

Hilarious. Or sad. Both, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See  the “Social Text Affair”, if you haven’t already.  ;)<br />
<a href="http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/" rel="nofollow">http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/postmodernism.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/postmodernism.html</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair</a></p>
<p>Hilarious. Or sad. Both, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: James Bannan</title>
		<link>http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/08/insidious-relativism/comment-page-1/#comment-7480</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bannan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.youngausskeptics.com/?p=3815#comment-7480</guid>
		<description>It is a great essay - it&#039;s included in A Devil&#039;s Chaplain...a great book to work your way through. Lots of interesting tidbits.

I agree with you too Elliot.  But maybe that&#039;s just my upbringing talking.  Or possibly I simply don&#039;t exist, at least in the way this post-colonial patriarchal society EXPECTS me to exist, imposing a sort of 21st century mode of atomic configuration so that I would appear to exist from certain angles, but from the totally and valid and relevant perspective of alternate cultures (particularly a 5th century BCE goatherder living near the Tigris) of course there&#039;s no way by which I could be deemed to be real....

...or something</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a great essay — it’s included in A Devil’s Chaplain…a great book to work your way through. Lots of interesting tidbits.</p>
<p>I agree with you too Elliot.  But maybe that’s just my upbringing talking.  Or possibly I simply don’t exist, at least in the way this post-colonial patriarchal society EXPECTS me to exist, imposing a sort of 21st century mode of atomic configuration so that I would appear to exist from certain angles, but from the totally and valid and relevant perspective of alternate cultures (particularly a 5th century BCE goatherder living near the Tigris) of course there’s no way by which I could be deemed to be real.…</p>
<p>…or something</p>
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		<title>By: Skelliot</title>
		<link>http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/08/insidious-relativism/comment-page-1/#comment-7463</link>
		<dc:creator>Skelliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.youngausskeptics.com/?p=3815#comment-7463</guid>
		<description>I have read the essay by Richard Dawkins. Great essay and a good laugh too. I have had discussions with people (when I was massively drunk) that have lead down the road of Relativism and Post Modernism (or is that post post modernism?). What a horrid discussion. By the end of it I wanted to off myself.

I would have to say I agree with you James. But in the end...it&#039;s all relative...see what i did there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read the essay by Richard Dawkins. Great essay and a good laugh too. I have had discussions with people (when I was massively drunk) that have lead down the road of Relativism and Post Modernism (or is that post post modernism?). What a horrid discussion. By the end of it I wanted to off myself.</p>
<p>I would have to say I agree with you James. But in the end…it’s all relative…see what i did there?</p>
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		<title>By: James Bannan</title>
		<link>http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/08/insidious-relativism/comment-page-1/#comment-7454</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bannan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>feel free to nitpick - I didn&#039;t know that particular factlet...thanks :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>feel free to nitpick — I didn’t know that particular factlet…thanks :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kingsford Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/08/insidious-relativism/comment-page-1/#comment-7448</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kingsford Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.youngausskeptics.com/?p=3815#comment-7448</guid>
		<description>Postmodernist drivel is little more than cryptic cargo-cult mental masturbation spewing from those with extreme &#039;science-envy&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Postmodernist drivel is little more than cryptic cargo-cult mental masturbation spewing from those with extreme ‘science-envy’.</p>
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		<title>By: techskeptic</title>
		<link>http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/08/insidious-relativism/comment-page-1/#comment-7444</link>
		<dc:creator>techskeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.youngausskeptics.com/?p=3815#comment-7444</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;you’re entitled to your own opinion, but to borrow a phrase from Sam Harris, that doesn’t mean you’re entitled to your own facts.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;


That quote is normally attributed to &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Daniel_Patrick_Moynihan&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Patrick Moynihan&lt;/a&gt; (a NY Senator) who certainly said it long before Harris did. 

Just picking a nit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>“you’re entitled to your own opinion, but to borrow a phrase from Sam Harris, that doesn’t mean you’re entitled to your own facts.”</em></p>
<p>That quote is normally attributed to <a href="http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Daniel_Patrick_Moynihan" rel="nofollow">Patrick Moynihan</a> (a NY Senator) who certainly said it long before Harris did. </p>
<p>Just picking a nit.</p>
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